Cause I Wanna Know
Welcome to Cause I Wanna Know - brings stories of people. In depth conversations that peel back what makes them tick and what has inspired them and moved them in the direction that they have forged.
Cause I Wanna Know
From Joy to Darkness to Community: Audrey Frasier on Postpartum Depression and Finding Help
The story starts with a beautiful birth and an answered prayer—then swerves into a darkness many parents never talk about. Audrey Frasier, a nurse and mom of two, opens up about the weeks after welcoming her second baby: elimination diets that collapsed to eight foods, mastitis and high fevers, a house hit by COVID, and nights carved into 30-minute scraps of sleep. Under the weight of it all, the thought finally surfaced: “I’m not okay.” Naming it—postpartum depression—changed the course.
We walk the full arc with her: the slow-building overwhelm, the moment a friend heard the strain over the phone, and the choice to stop breastfeeding cold turkey with compassion and closure. From there, the plan sharpens—medication adjusted, therapy booked, a lactation consultant who asked what “goodbye” needed to look like, and a midwife who treated food and sleep as clinical interventions. Most of all, the community moved. Friends mapped coverage for the fragile hours, organized a new meal train, showed up for six-hour stretches, and made sure she wasn’t alone long enough to sink.
What follows is a steady return: the baby’s screams fade on formula, eye contact turns into bonding, and the home breathes again. Audrey’s honesty reframes maternal mental health: postpartum depression isn’t just sadness—it can be rage, numbness, and feeling trapped while performing well on the outside. It’s also survivable with a clear name, a reachable plan, and people who carry some of the weight. If you’ve ever felt that fog—or know someone who might—this conversation offers a map, language, and hope.
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Welcome to Kiss I Wanna Know. Today I'm joined by Audrey Frazier, who's opening up about her journey through postpartum depression after her last birth. Audrey's story is one of honesty, struggle, and healing, and by sharing it, she helps break the silence that surrounds so many mothers. Audrey, thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having me, Timmy.
SPEAKER_03:You're welcome. I'm very excited. We don't know each other a ton, really at all. Um, we go to the same church. Your husband, Skyler, is one of our pastors. And how long is how long have you guys been at Grace and how long has he been a pastor?
SPEAKER_00:Since 2020, like January 2020, he started. So is that almost six years? Coming up.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And then how long have you guys been going to Grace or was it right around that? It was yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_00:It was January 2020.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So usually I like to start, we'll get to Skylar and your family, of course, but I um want to know just a little bit about growing up, just so people can kind of get to know you a little bit. We won't like get super deep into that because that's not what we're here to talk about, but it just gives a chance for everybody to and for me to kind of get to know who you are and all of that. So um where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I grew up in Southern California, Orange County. Um, and you know, not far from Disneyland, also near the OC Housewives. Um, and um I've got four siblings. I'm one of five.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm number two in the line.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So brothers, sisters, where brother, me, sister, brother, brother.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So a lot of brothers. Yes. Um and your parents, tell me a little bit about them. What did they do? What did they how is that growing up?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I um my mom and stepdad. Um they uh is who I grew up living with, like middle school, high school. Um, and then my real dad um was like 40 minutes away. Um and uh my mom's a nurse, as am I. Um my stepdad's an engineer, and my real dad um is uh he I his like title is a yard hostler. I don't even know what that he moves things around on trailers to put them on trains, like in the yard. I don't know how to just get it.
SPEAKER_03:Gotcha. So how was it growing up with so many siblings and boys and how is just growing up in general?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, our house was so loud. Like to have a quiet house was non-existent. I was probably the loudest one. Um I've got like a couple of them are introverts. Um, but I I love being like there was seven people in our house, like five kids, two parents, and so it was just someone was always around, and I love that. I love being with people, and it's like, well, I always was with people. Uh so yeah, it was not overly loud, but we're we're a loud bunch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, the girls know you, my daughters know you. Um, and they've both shared that you're really outgoing. Um, I don't know if they've ever said loud, but love you love people, like you're a people person. Yes, and we'll kind of get to Skylar. Skylar is a little bit different, yeah. So and we'll get to that. But so did did you compete a lot with your, you know, in just terms of being seen and all of that or with your siblings?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, it is we we each had like a different role, you know. It is funny now that we're adults, we're like all talking about like just looking. My youngest brother just turned 21 this summer. So there's like a big gap. I'm 31, so we're 10 years apart.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:So it's like my youngest brothers are like just entering young adulthood, you know. Um, and so it is fun to look back and reflect now as adults of all the dynamics um of us. But I my older brother was a genius. Like, so there was uh, you know, I was like, I'm not as gonna get a 5.3 GPA, and I'm okay with that. So it wasn't that, you know. Oh, so no, it wasn't that wasn't my role. I'm always like, I was like the mom of the group.
SPEAKER_03:Kind of a caretaker.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I'm like the uh like it like I'm the oldest daughter, you know?
SPEAKER_03:And then kind of mommed a little bit. Totally.
SPEAKER_00:That was yeah, so it wasn't I wasn't into the competing, that kind of thing. That wasn't my role, but it was like peacekeeper kind of and um mediator and mom of the group.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think some of that mom you mentioned that you're a nurse, yeah, do you feel like that there's a bridge there, like that that just kind of natural went into kind of caretaking maybe your siblings or whatever into nursing? Do you find a connection there?
SPEAKER_00:Man, I know it all. I've like, I always thought I wanted to be a nurse since I was like six. Like I can't remember a time not wanting, yeah. Which my mom was a nurse, and it was just I I don't know, I just thought I was gonna be too.
SPEAKER_03:So you find that so maybe that was just the incident.
SPEAKER_00:That was just yeah, yeah. But I and then I love people, I love science, like it just all fit together where it was like, no duh do this. Like that's no question about it.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. So when you so you saw mom do that, yeah. And you kind of thought about that at five or six, such a young age. Um, that's that's pretty cool. Did it just did just feel right even then? Yeah. I mean, you can can you remember really that far back and really thinking, like, that is absolutely what I want to do. And it just felt good, felt right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. I remember in high school I did like that, was just the path I was pursuing. So in high school, there was this class where you could like it's kind of like a nursing intro thing. Um, it was like after hours after high school. And I was doing it to get hours to apply for nursing school. And a lot of the girls that I made friends with, they're like, Yeah, I'm trying to decide if I want to be a nurse or not. And I was like, Oh, like I already know. Like I and I never like questioned it of, is that?
SPEAKER_03:Um that seems strange to you.
SPEAKER_00:I it did. I was just like, oh, like you have to think about if you want to do this or not. And some of them left the program, like, I don't want to do this. And I was like, I love it even more.
SPEAKER_03:So are there any as you move through, um we won't stay on you know, childhood, but are there any big highlights that kind of maybe formed you through high school or maybe that happened in high school or any family? You said your dad and stepdad, I'm sure that there's some stuff there. I would love to get into that, but we don't have to we don't have to get into the nitty-gritty of that. But how do you think that affected you as you move through life? And because that always I'm a product of of divorce too, so yeah, it obviously forms you in some way.
SPEAKER_00:So yes, yes, which you know, we're going through emotionally healthy spirituality right now, and so I've done some counseling. It's like all these the family of origin. I'm like so into this right now. Of like, God, show me how these things did. So, you know, there's some things of um yeah, of like really wanting to be that peacekeeper. Like I wanted everyone to get along and love each other, you know. Um, I wanted my parents, even the divorced ones, you know, to still like um, you know, I'm like, well, maybe they just, you know.
SPEAKER_03:How old were you when that happened?
SPEAKER_00:I was when I um mom and dad got divorced, I had to have been like one or two, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Oh wow. So it was it was pretty early.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, really early. Okay. So I've known my stepdad like since I can remember. Also, like I think he I think I met him when I was two. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that all happened pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_00:So I just have always had two dads and a mom.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So your siblings are are from your stepdad then?
SPEAKER_00:Um, one, me and my brother, yeah. Um have the same dad. And then my other three are from my stepdad. Yeah, but we always all live together.
SPEAKER_03:Um and why did you how did you end up up here?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I went to Seattle University, okay. Um, which is like a smaller Jesuit school. Um, my brother went to Seattle University and I was in Orange County, and I was like, I'm gonna go somewhere so cool, I'm gonna go to the city, you know, I'm gonna go to Seattle. So dramatic. And um so went to Seattle University and they have a nursing program. And so my brother had told me, and he loved it up there. Um, and yeah, had I knew I was gonna do nursing, so I'd applied to all these nursing programs. Um, but I was like, yeah, the this big city, and um we don't we didn't actually ever go to LA much, so I didn't. Orange County, different than LA. So this was the city vibes and um went up there and then I met Schuyler at Seattle University, like junior year, I think, or end of sophomore year. Um, and then he's from Vancouver, Washington. He grew up here, and so we knew we would have kids and want to be near family, and the Nelsons are like our best friends.
SPEAKER_03:And did you know them before? Yeah, we knew them in Seattle.
SPEAKER_00:Skylar's known them like 13 years or something. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. So they were moving down here. Um, and they're like, You should come with us. And I was like, We already prayed about it. We're coming, give us a couple months.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so they came down here and they're like, You should come down. So you guys hung out friends, like they did all life with each other.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe sat their kids, did premarital counseling or pre-engagement counseling with them. Okay, Keith officiated our wedding.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and what's the age gap? Is that like so bad? I think like maybe 10 years. Yeah, he's around 40, right? Yeah, yeah. Skylar's 30. So, how was that um friendship? Because we when we were in our 20s, um, we had a music pastor at our previous church, and they were about 10 years older than us, and they loved hanging out with us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And um, I remember we still talk about it every once in a while. They would get upset when we like if they had a party, like a church thing, and we kind of got up and they're like, Well, where are you guys going? Like, you guys are we're like playing games and stuff after. So it was a really neat relationship. Do you does that resonate with you with them? Yeah, just kind of living your early life together. So 13 years. So you were in your your 31.
SPEAKER_00:Skylar has known him, yeah. Like yeah, longer. I met him, yeah, probably sophomore year, which was 1320.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so is it like eight, nine years, something like that?
SPEAKER_00:Something like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's very cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we I know I I'm like, are they like our best friends? Are they like we're like we're just family? And I'm like, we've been saying lately.
SPEAKER_03:We're like, it's our big brother and sister that yeah, like, yeah, yeah, because they're kind of old enough to be like mentors.
SPEAKER_00:They they did mentor us. That was totally, they totally mentored us, like discipled us, mentored us, called us out in love, yeah, like walked with us through all kinds of really hard things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so let's back up just a smidge. So um, I I don't want to gloss over it. I asked you about high school, early college. Was there anything formative, like anything bad that kind of shaped any part of your life?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that was when I became a Christian. Like we um like up until fifth grade, I went we went to a Catholic church in Mass.
SPEAKER_03:I grew up Catholic too.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah. And I I always say, I'm like, I'm just not the most intellectual. Like I didn't know what they were talking about.
SPEAKER_03:Like I just Catholicism.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm like, I didn't know about Jesus. Like I went to church for a lot of years, went to Sunday school, did confession as a child, you know, all of that. But and so I I knew God existed and I believed that and I would pray to him when I really needed something bad. Like I screwed something up, and um, but sophomore year, when I, you know, I was a California girl who moved to Seattle, um, and I hated it. I was so miserable, like it was so dark and cloudy, and it's like hard to describe to people like it's sunny every day in California, and I'm like, it's dark in Seattle. It's so rainy. I wasn't I didn't like have a friend who like I roomed with or anything. So I just had a hard time making friends. Old Audrey.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so so college, you didn't you didn't have anybody you weren't living with anybody?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I was in a dorm and my roommates didn't like me. Oh one of them really didn't like me. Um and so yeah, I didn't really have any friends. Um that's tough.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, right in this dark city, like yeah, from the sun. I mean, that's a yeah, I mean, when we were downstairs, you alluded to the seasonal depression and a thing. Did you you feel like you had that or was it heavy?
SPEAKER_00:It was I was very depressed. Like it was it was just a season of darkness for many reasons, but it was yeah, and I don't. I used to call my mom crying all the time, like please let me transfer home. But she was like, No, you gotta stay in this nursing program, you can do it, you know. And they'd fly me home for like three days or you know.
SPEAKER_03:So how what like how was that like you said you've mentioned it was, you know, kind of a dark time besides.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So explain that a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I like I it was before, again, like you know, that I had ever read a Bible or knew about what who Jesus really was or anything. Like I did not have any.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's not the most churched Oregon and Washington is like most unchurched areas in the country.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. And I would like Seattle University is I don't know how to describe it, but um I felt like a lot of shame in like aggress aggression, aggressiveness, aggression towards the Christian or yeah, like the Christian faith, even like it was people didn't talk about that they were even. So it was like a negative thing, even not even just is it not talked about. But if it is, it's like oh, shame on you kind of vibe was what I experienced. Um so yeah, it was just I was in an unhealthy relationship, long distance relationship, didn't have any good friends, was like joined the rowing team, and they I yeah, I just they didn't like me.
SPEAKER_03:Plus plus the weather.
SPEAKER_00:It was literally so dark, you know, and I just remember sitting in my room on the weekends with the shades closed, and you know, at like 12 p.m. it's just blackout basically, you know, and I would just lay in bed. Yeah, and so I was like, yeah, that I was depressed. I was depressed, I had no friends, community, nothing really to do. And you like often have a lot of time, like those like freshman sophomore year before the nursing program like really starts. Um, and just yeah, the like Audrey, you know, now outgoing, like people don't believe me. I was like, I was so anxious, I could not talk to people, like could not make friends, just like so quiet, shy.
SPEAKER_03:Like what so you were that person in California. The the the like the bright, outgoing No, no, I wasn't.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, with my friends and like my family would say, like, I'm generally joyful, like in you know, like with the people that you know and love and sure with my family and a few best friends that I had growing up for sure. But like, no, I was not outgoing. I didn't have like a ton of friends or wasn't like popular or whatever, you know. Like I know it's hard. I feel like people don't believe me. And I'm like, no, I wasn't. I knew a lot of different people, but I wasn't like I had a few close best friends, but really hard time like going to a party or going to a school thing. Like I refused to speak up in class. I got a B in English every year because I refused to we had to like participate. And I said I'd rather get a B than speak out loud in class. Like I couldn't do it. Yeah, so shy.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm gonna put a pin in that. I want to come back to that. So but let's get through college and stuff and getting into the you know the program and stuff. I don't want to miss anything. So if there's anything, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um college, depressed, sad, yeah. So depressed and sad that my uncle from California, I was home for winter break. And my uncle's like, Oh, are you going to a church up there? And I'm like, No, I'd never, we hadn't gone to church really. Like, I'd go with people here and there, like if a friend invited me in high school, but he was like, you know, we have a church branch up there. Like, would you want me to give your number to somebody? And I was like, Give my number to anybody. Like, I'll I'll talk to anybody. I'm so lonely up there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so he gave my number to somebody who gave it to somebody in Seattle. So he was in Orange County or San Diego and um somehow got me connected with these people and they like were like, Wanna come? And they were doing like Bible studies and it was college ministry. I didn't know what it was at the time. It was college ministry at University of Washington. So it was mostly UW students, a couple Seattle Pacific students. Um, and then I was the only Seattle youth student. So I would bust like 30 minutes um to go hang out with these people. And it was just like, oh my gosh, like these people care about me. They love me, like they're following up on the things I talk about, like they're praying for me. Um, like that was literally I bought my first Bible. Like they made me pray out loud for the first time, which made me want to throw up. I was like, the first time I was like, I can't do that. I'm sorry. And they're like, no, you can't. I'm like, no, like I'm not gonna do it today. Like just so shy, like couldn't talk out loud. Um and eventually ended up finding out that there were Christians at Seattle University. They're hard to find because then they feel ashamed or whatever. I don't know. Um and then literally had like those that was the first time I had friends on campus, and I think that was I'm so bad at timing. It might have been like very end of sophomore year, like the spring, or like yeah, before we went home, or junior year. Really bad with timing. You'd have to go. That's okay. So, anyways, I that was when I met Skylar, and um, so it was like in the group at Seattle University, yeah. There is a group, a Christian group on campus that somebody from a different church was like, Oh, I've heard there's this group that meets like I was at a different church, um, and whatever, got me connected. They're like, There's some I'm like, you know, Christians at Seattle U.
SPEAKER_03:And um so this so you're doing these things, you're going to these groups. Yeah. In the beginning, was it just to your uncle asked you, got you connected, but for you in the beginning, was it just to be around people?
SPEAKER_00:Because you're not yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You don't have a relationship with Christ yet.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, no.
SPEAKER_03:So you're kind of like open to it, or you're just like hanging out.
SPEAKER_00:That's so interesting. I was really interested in what they were saying.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I went because it was people I was totally.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, you spent like a year in whatever alone. Alone. Yes. So you're kind of probably desperate.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I'm like, yes, I am for sure desperate.
SPEAKER_03:Like literally bussing at night, 40 minutes to go to these Bible studies, you know, like what was the um what was the from What was the turning point from just being like I can't do this to I gotta do this? I gotta do something. Was there like a switch that you're like, I gotta, I gotta get out? Was there like just a was it just a feeling like I gotta do something?
SPEAKER_00:I I think I felt I just was like so miserable. Like it was just like when I think I'm like, I just picture my dark little room. I'm like, it was just dark little box, it was just dark. There was no light or goodness or anything, and I became like uh an RA, what is it, a resident assistant? Like I was like trying to get involved in these things, but I just still wasn't finding it. So you were trying. I was, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So it was trying to do some stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and I just still wasn't connecting with people, wasn't fitting in, um just not, yeah, like yeah, I yeah. So this is just one where I was like, oh, like I legitimately felt for the first time in years, like these people really care about me. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So was there a turn then? So you're you don't have a relationship necessarily with Christ. You're in the group, so how long did it kind of take? Or was it outside of the group later where you found relationship? Or was it just finally like I just gonna surrender and just do this?
SPEAKER_00:No, I know it is. I I mean, I really don't think I I if I had heard the gospel of what like who Jesus is and what he's done and what life I have accessible to, I never understood or received it as a child. Yeah, and so these like the church I was going to was so good about like every week we'd meet with two ladies and they were a little older than me in college. Sure. And they're like, you know, the first week, who is Jesus? And we'd read and do a Bible study. Yeah, like just basically what did yeah, the foundations, and they did such a good job where it laid it out. I was like, oh my goodness. Like I was like, what? I never understood any of this. Um and I ate it up. Like I I do think, you know, I um they're telling me about the love of Jesus Christ and they're loving me so well. So it was like I don't doubt this at all. Like they were so intentional with me, like they would text me, like, hey, I know you have that test. Like I just hadn't had friends who'd done that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's really ever.
SPEAKER_00:Like I had a couple friends, like maybe one friend in high school, like um, and one friend's parents who have been so faithful, they're Christians and have been so faithful, like of praying and being good to me. Um but yeah, it was just so it was all at the same time. Like, so it was and I I didn't I was working through like, is this real? Do I believe this?
SPEAKER_03:And um I'd had some other friends who were that I knew were Christians, but had an and I was like calling them like this is so you were really like not just you were you were in it, but you weren't like uh you were still questioning, not in a bad way, you're just like working through learning about it, yeah, working through it just pretty intentionally.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I was so excited about it. Like I was yeah, yeah. And so the turning point of everything, you know, was just like Jesus in community, like that all came together. Whether I think that was junior year that I started going to the group, maybe, or and it's right around then is when you met Skylar.
SPEAKER_03:It was in that group, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That that very first night I met him um when I went to the the on campus group.
SPEAKER_03:So was that was that a spark right away, or was that uh because I it was a while for me for Shelly to like me. It was it was wild, it was a chase. She calls it a stalking.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's very similar, too.
SPEAKER_03:It was a chase for me. Probably a little stalking. Yes, but she came around eventually. We we we say that it was divine intervention for one, and she I just wore her down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So that I know I wish Skylar was here to to to give his side, but no, I don't I was dating someone still. I was in that previous relationship that was not healthy at all. And so I don't remember meeting Skylar. But he met me, or I mean, we met that night, and the next day he was talking to his friend, like, hey, you were talking to that girl Audrey. It looked like you knew her. Who is she? You know, um, is like pulling me up. He goes, and Keith was his mentor time, and he was like, Keith, I met this girl, like she's really interesting, like instantly was like, I was on his radar.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, I know that. I know that yes, that feeling.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and then we keep bumping into each other. Right. It was like he saw me and would cross the street and for the next so that's yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03:So um, well, let's stay on Skylar. So you're in a relationship, yeah. That and we don't need to get into all of that. So that ended at some point.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, I I I did. I um I actually I thought this guy was a Christian, or you know, like he was Christian, but super unhealthy lifestyle, relationship, all those things. And one day it just like clicked. Like I became really good friends with Skylar and his best friend, and became friends with these Christians. And and this was the first time I like people said they were Christians, you know, and so I thought I'm dating a Christian. This is the best it's ever gonna get. Yeah. Then I became friends with this group of people, really close with um like just a little crew of us, and Skylar included in that. And I was like, why am I doing this long distance relationship to like marry this guy who treats me horribly? Like, I want to marry someone like Skylar. So I broke up with the guy.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I was like, Skylar wouldn't want to be with me, I'm sure. Like, um, which is a bad narrative, but that's what went through my head, you know? And um, so now I broke up with this guy to marry someone like Skylar. So was very much involved. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's an interesting thought that you said he's Christian, and I guess this is the best that it gets. Yeah. Can you we're getting away from what we're doing, but I know, I'm so sorry. No, it's it's so good. So briefly, can you like was that just the expectation? Did you just not know enough or maybe have enough experience, maybe dating or whatever? Like this, I guess this is it. He says he's Christian, so yeah. I mean, because that's like I mean, I don't know Skylar, but he seems like a really good dude. Yes, that's you know, so um so that's like uh and I don't want to be terribly dramatic, an awakening or like your eyes open to like, oh, wow, that like this is it was a it was a little bit different.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, yeah, because my relationship prior to that one was even more unhealthy. So then this next one, I'm like, oh well, this is better. He says he's a Christian. What kind of better person can I look for? You know, and it's just going downhill, downhill, but I keep giving it.
SPEAKER_03:So you recognize the unhealth in the in do you recognize that in the moment?
SPEAKER_00:Man, did I rec like I hated how I felt all the time?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like so anxious. Like I knew I was, or yeah, did I know how? I don't know if I knew. Yeah, I didn't like it, but I thought there was no other option. Was yeah, I don't think I knew this is not it or this is unhealthy. That's my friend's unhealthy relationship. I know.
SPEAKER_03:That's so scary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. No, and I wasn't talking to anybody except for one best friend who I'd call crying almost every night. And we talk about her her boyfriend who's cheating on her, you know, like it was just we didn't, we couldn't tell each other, like, right, you know, I could tell her, like, he's obviously cheated on you. Don't be with him, you know. Um, but mine wasn't obvious. So, you know, like we were just being two, how old were we? Like 19? Yeah, yeah. Two 19-year-old girls who didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. So no, I don't think I knew, but I didn't like how I felt.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, I'm so thankful that you kept moving. Oh, yeah. I mean, because you you you were kind of stuck for a little bit, but you kept moving.
SPEAKER_00:It literally clicked in my head one day.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I was like, what am I doing? Like I I just was like, this is what a real Christian man is like. Because I didn't know any growing up even really. Like my uncle, which I didn't totally understand Christianity, anyways, you know, but it was just like, um, like, oh, that's this is what adapts. Like, these are good guys who care about me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like, so let's move into Skylar, you know, dating. We can kind of go over that a little bit, getting married and stuff like that. So, how did that progress?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So we were friends, and really we became like best friends. Um, and everybody knew, like, oh my gosh, you guys have such a big crush on each other. And I was like, what? Does he know he doesn't like me? Like, yeah, you know, that whole thing or whatever. And I I had felt like even insecure of like, this guy's such an amazing Christian guy, like, I'm not an amazing Christian girl.
SPEAKER_03:Like, um, it's the um, it's the the narrative that we play in our head and the not good enough stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, that was totally going on in my head.
SPEAKER_03:And so I could go into like a whole other thing. You not feeling good enough.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah. We'll stay on task. Yeah, yeah. Um, because that's not the truth, obviously.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, but that comes from somewhere. Yes. You know, all of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00:So yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. We've worked through that in cancelling a little bit. Um, but yeah. So we were like best friends. I went home for the summer, like, went home to California. Skyler would call me, and I like gotten involved with the church at home. Um, and he would like call, like, I was gonna go to youth camp to go serve with my friend and um go lead some seventh grade girls. And he called me and was like, Can I just pray for you?
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, Man, this guy's the best, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and from his side, he's thinking, like, I don't want her to forget about me when she's home for this summer because we totally just had a crush on each other the whole time.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's so funny that nobody was making a move.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, and then see that had to have been the end of oh my gosh, it was spring. All I know is it was spring when I and then I went home that summer. And then when I came back, this is so confusing, but um I came back in the fall, and it must have been senior year because I was gonna graduate, started you start to apply for like nursing, internship, residency things. And I was being dramatic and I was like, I'm gonna move to Alabama. And he was like, What are you talking about? And everyone's like, What are you talking about? Like, why would you go there? I was like, I've got a family friend. They said I could live with them, she's a nurse, she'll get me a job. Like, I'm single now, and so I can do whatever I want. And I just was like, Skylar is not like asking me out, he's not making a move. Like, and I kept asking him, he'd be like, Don't move to Alabama. I'd be like, Why not, Skylar? Like trying to, and he wouldn't. So I went to visit Alabama to go visit my friend, check it out, like go to some places where I could maybe work. Um, and then he calls me while I was there. And because Keith had told him, What are you doing, man? This is your shot. Like you're about to do it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's why I was like waiting for the what was there like something he was waiting for?
SPEAKER_00:No, it isn't. Well, because he was he didn't want to be my rebound. Didn't want to be my rebound and wanted to make sure I was ready. And so, I mean, I was like, I had such a big crush on him. Like some of my friends would be like, Oh, how's your boyfriend Skylar? I'm like, no, guys, we're just friends. Like, don't say that. It like isn't good for my heart. Like every day, like, just put him in the friend box, Audrey. Put him in the friend box. Like, he's not right, you know. And then in Alabama, my family friend was just like, so whatever happened with you and Skylar? I'm like, we're just friends. And she was like, Audrey, he's clearly waiting for you to like give him a signal that you're ready.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, guys, kind of have to like, we're so well. I'll speak for a second.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:There's so much fear. I'm so scared of girls. Like, some guys can just do it, they have the riz, as the kids say. I don't know what the kids still saying that. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm 52. You're in your 30s. I have no idea. So, but I think well, especially like with Shelly, I I was just scared. She was just so out of my league that it was just scary. So, anyways, yeah. So, was it was it kind of like that with him? Was he just nervous about it? Was he afraid of rejection?
SPEAKER_00:He was. When he told me, he legit said, so he ends up I'm on the phone with my friend saying, When I get home, I'm gonna tell Skylar we either have to date or stop being such good friends. Like, I can't do this. I like you too much. It's not healthy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:All I'm on the phone talking to her about this, he calls me and was like, Can I talk to you? And I'm like, um, I'm not available right now. Like, you know, I'm like trying to hash this out with my friend. Like, oh my gosh. He's like, Okay, I'll call you tomorrow. I was like, okay, okay. So he ends up calling me and he tells me, Audrey, I just want you to know that whether we're friends, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, I'm invested in this relationship. And I'm like, what? What does that mean, Skylar? Like, and he repeats it. And I was like, You're the one of the most intentional people I've ever met. What are you trying to say? And he was like, You should come back and date me. And I was like, Yes, I will.
SPEAKER_03:I could almost hear him saying that. Oh, he's a man. Like in his in his tone, because he doesn't speak a ton, but he has a certain cadence and stuff when he speaks. Yeah. And so I can hear him saying those exact words in his voice.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Audrey.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And he well, later when we talked about it, he was like, I had no idea if you liked me or were gonna say yes. I was like, what? Like, I was shocked. He was like afraid that he was gonna get rejected. And I was like, every day, I'm like, put him in the friendship box. Audrey, he's not your actual boyfriend. Stop pretending he's your boyfriend. Like I liked him so much, which is just crazy. He didn't know.
SPEAKER_03:Was it really I I don't know if abrupt's the right word, but it was it really that like from this to calling you and just I mean, it what it's what you said, but in my mind, I'm like, that's so like not saying anything, not saying anything. It's like, did he just get the gumption up to say whether we're friends or boyfriend? Like that would be mind-blowing to me. Like, what? Yeah, like I don't even know. I mean, we hang out.
SPEAKER_00:I think no, we're best friends, we're like best friends, is the thing. Like we're three of us, like, so we spend a ton of time together.
SPEAKER_03:It just seems so yeah, here.
SPEAKER_00:Here it is.
SPEAKER_03:This is it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, no, it was it was do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03:Do you understand what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:It actually probably was a big jump on like when you say it out loud. Right. But in my head, and everybody in our friend group knew from the like knew from like the spring before. Yeah, yeah. You guys have such a big crush on each other. Like everybody knew. And we'd had talks about it. Like, he'd even said, Yeah, yeah, there was like this whole other conversation we had in the spring before I went home. He was like, go home this summer and you know, heal from your breakup, and when you come back, like we'll see. I can't remember the line. I'm I'm blinking, but he was like, and I was like, What?
SPEAKER_03:So it's out there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like we, like I was like, does he like did he just say he liked me? Like, I'm calling my friend, like, does that mean he likes me? No way, right?
SPEAKER_03:Like, so it was yeah, so it's still so unbelievable to you. Do you feel like like you kind of knew, but like there's that that's not right? That can't be real.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I yeah, I really had hoped he liked me. I was like, clearly, we get along so great. Like, we never really hung out one-on-one. That was part of it, you know, there was always someone else and stuff, like he wouldn't come to my room alone, those things. But when we were with each other, like and other people, or just the third person, you know, you were our poor friend Jensen was the third wheel. We love you, Jensen, and it was like we clearly get along so great. Like, and yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you eventually started going out.
SPEAKER_00:I came like picking up from the airport and I came back from Alabama and we were dating. Yep.
SPEAKER_03:That's so funny.
SPEAKER_00:So, and then we didn't date, so that was it was like Thanksgiving break. I went to Alabama. Um, then we dated. Okay, this is let's see. I think we dated a year. So maybe it Oh my goodness. Well, we dated a year and the next December he proposed.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Which we had been super intentional during the time we were dating. We did pre-we called it pre-pre pre-marriage counseling with another couple and Keith and Lisa.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, like a weekly super intensive Bible study, and just like deep down, like, what's your biggest fear about marrying this person? Okay, let's share it out loud with the group now, and you're like, what? Um, super intentional of like, we're either gonna date to get married or yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, there's really no other, I mean, that's just you're saying it, but that's the only word that I mean that describes is so intentional. So, like, let's just get down to the nitty-gritty and make sure this works.
SPEAKER_01:And yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03:Intentional.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, you can't get much more intentional than that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So we spent our dating season. Like, we were already best friends. We already knew we like each other so much.
SPEAKER_03:You know, like yeah, yeah. You already know each other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03:Pretty good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So how long was so dating into engagement?
SPEAKER_00:And then December, and then um, we got married in June.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:After that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So engaged in December. Uh-huh. And then married in that June. Yeah. So pretty quick.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's what and what year was that?
SPEAKER_00:We got married 2017, June 18. 2017.
SPEAKER_03:You guys are so young. Uh the years are so crazy because it's not that long ago, but it's almost 10 years ago. So um, so 2017. So you're all down here at that point? Nope. Nope. We're still in Seattle. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. Because we moved down 2020.
SPEAKER_03:So you're hanging out with Keith and Lisa. Oh, yeah. And Keith is our senior pastor at the church that we go to. So they come down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then we followed down.
SPEAKER_00:We moved in with them.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. To save up for a house.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So we shared a bathroom with Brooklyn. Yeah. How is that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it was January 2020.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so you're like doing COVID together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we quarantined together. Wow. It was the best thing in the world for me. Again, I love a full house. I love being around people.
SPEAKER_03:So since we've moved forward a little bit, I want to touch, I want to get because I think it's a part of the story. Where did your light turn on in terms of because it sounds like you were you're kind of quiet, you had some dark years, and now you're this blooming person, this personality that loves people and you like to be with your people, but really like really enjoy people and life. When did that light turn on for you? When did that really materialize?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you kind of became this I know it wasn't like a just like maturity and becoming an adult or I know that's it's gotta be part of it because you know, I think of the timing, like okay, I'm in college, finding myself, you know, like that. Just like, okay, I'm independent from my family. Um, you know. So I think that's a part of it, definitely.
SPEAKER_03:But it seems to be a real big part of who you are.
SPEAKER_00:What what that light.
SPEAKER_03:That yeah, you know, the you know, talking to people and loving people, loving on people, and being, you know, uh uh a light to kind of sum up all those things.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. Yeah, I think it I think it like probably you know, was uh on a dimmer setting, you know, like it was switched on. Like by the time I what's that? Did we decide junior year? Whatever that that spring when I got connected, like I think it was technically winter, I got into that small group, um, on campus Christian group, like that kind of brought things alive. And it was a lot slower though, where you know, like where I was like, I enjoy my life.
SPEAKER_03:Like yeah, was it like um was it like uh when you're talking, was it like you're with people and it was like oh this is who I am? Like they were safe to be you were safe to be who you were intended to be, maybe. Is that yeah? Yes, and they helped call it out in me, which is like I you have really good people the best, like the best. Really really good people in your life.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, calling out who I was, even for you know the first like they saw you before you saw you. Yes, yes. I remember Keith saying, like, Audrey, you're a great leader, and like I think you should serve with these high schoolers. And I was like, No, like they wouldn't listen to me. And he's like, Audrey, like I remember him being like, That's not true. Yeah, and he's like, That's not true, Audrey. Like, yeah, that's not true at all. Like, like you people like you, people love you, like you love people, like just telling me these things, and I was like, Oh, like, huh? Like, maybe you're right.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, so they are seeing you, yeah, they are seeing how people react around you and with you, and you're not seeing it the same way.
SPEAKER_00:No, I was it took like a lot of like is this like a really like yeah, and you know, just stepping into those things because Skylar's doing it and Keith's doing it, and it's like okay, this is what all our friends are doing. They're all serving with this um ministry and stuff. So it's just like, okay, let's do these things, but like so out of my comfort zone, but um just like seeing that, like, oh, it is true, actually. Like, I do love being with people and um like I can introduce myself to somebody. That was like a really big deal for me to like go up and say, like, hi, I'm Audrey.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Yeah. Yeah, I still have a hard time. I know.
SPEAKER_00:No, it does still get me off in, but I try. I'm like, you can do it. Like you can, you know, I still have to prep myself, but um that that's like a regular practice I do now, where before it'd be like, I would go literally like to the bathroom because I'm nauseous, like I can't do it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I don't get that bad. I just avoid. I just don't it's a it's been a thing. Yeah, it's tough.
SPEAKER_00:It is tough, but really mentored, shaped, called out into these things. And eventually, I remember once, I think this summer when I did go home junior, it was the first time where I was like, I'm sad to leave school. Like I have people here.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's such a turnaround. It was such an awesome turnaround.
SPEAKER_00:I could not wait to get home. You know, I'm counting down the days and begging my parents to fly me home for short weekends. Like to like, I'm sad to leave, and then realizing, oh my gosh, it's a lot of people. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:It's all the people. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I just I really was loved so well.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like in the safest ways.
SPEAKER_00:Like, and people were like, Audrey, you talk a lot, but you don't ask me how I'm doing. Like I was, you know, called out even, but in the safe, like I'm like, and I know she loves me. And like just that kind of thing, like where I could even receive feedback and and grow. Like, I just such good people, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. And so you get down here, you're living with the Nelsons for a little bit, you're quarantining together. How long did that have to last?
SPEAKER_00:We moved out, like we moved in with them in January, and then we moved out. Yeah, October. We got our house.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:October, November.
SPEAKER_03:So moving forward, you guys are married, getting into family mode. So you have uh you have two kids and uh your first child is James. James. Yeah. Okay. And when's James born?
SPEAKER_00:This is February 1st, and I'm like, what was the year? This is so bad. I'm like, I guess 2023.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So just a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's two and a half right now.
SPEAKER_03:It's two and a half. So all of that went well or not well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it um it was he had a lot of gut issues, dietary issues.
SPEAKER_03:Like right off. I mean, he's only two and asked like right off the bat.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, within a couple months, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So pretty difficult, like breastfeeding journey. At one point I was only eating rice every day for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Then I did lamb, quinoa, and sweet potatoes for a couple months so that his stomach wouldn't hurt.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so you're breastfeeding and you obviously had to control I used to be able to get it. So you actually control, yeah. So that there was ever a thought to do like some kind of formula, or is that something that you really wanted to do for a while?
SPEAKER_00:I did value, I do value breastfeeding. Yeah. Like I I value health a lot, and so it's just and I also really enjoy breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_03:Shelly slashed weeded too. It was huge for okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it was a very high value. And he was intolerant to corn. Corn hurt his stomach, and he would cry all night, so fussy, and then it would like I won't get into what his poop looked like, but it was very obviously, you know. Um, and he was intolerant to corn, and sadly, there's corn in most American formulas.
SPEAKER_03:Like everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I couldn't find one, and then I found one and he refused to drink it. And so I just like felt kind of trapped. And so like his health journey has been a saga, is what I say.
SPEAKER_03:So you were okay. It was he was he was sick and stomach issues. So for you and Skylar, that was the rough dealing with that.
SPEAKER_00:I had postpartum anxiety for sure. Like um, so it was it was rough.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But but you were okay besides mentally and emotionally dealing with that. Yes, yes, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that were you guys able to kind of figure all that out? No, it was it's still a journey.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. He ended up with food allergies and an epi pen. Um, so no, it's a saga that continues. Um, but he can't he ate corn for the first time this summer and it didn't hurt his stomach. Oh, that's good. So he's two and a half. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What form of corn?
SPEAKER_00:He ate corn on the cob. He loved it he loved it. It was so fun. He loved it.
SPEAKER_03:So good.
SPEAKER_00:He went to the pumpkin patch today and he kept saying, buy some corn and cook it.
SPEAKER_03:Was that like uh your doctors, or are you deciding, okay, we're gonna kind of introduce this? It's been a journey, but we're gonna kind of reintroduce this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I uh yeah, we've got his primary care, uh naturopath, an allergist. And it is you just there, you know, every couple months you try it, see if it hurts his stomach. If not, pause it, try again. Got it. So we've tried things every now and then it's like slowly been getting better. He's got like a couple different diagnoses of like that we don't need to get into, but um so the they should most kids outgrow those intolerances with the stomach age. Early on. Yeah, not the food allergies, but the the intolerances. Got it. So I think he's outgrowing them.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm really happy that he say we'll have corn on the cob. I know is so good. I know corn's so good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's fun for him to eat. That's like the cutest thing. Right. He was he loves corn now.
SPEAKER_03:So he's two and a half. Yeah. So you guys are chugging along family stuff. You're doing the family thing. Yeah. Skylar's works at the church. Are you working?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I was working three days a week um in the clinic in OB before James was born, and then I went to two days a week. And it's just eight hour, nine hour days, um, no weekends. Um I went to two days a week after James was born.
SPEAKER_03:So still love that, still that made for that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And I'd always wanted to do like really I wanted to do like labor and delivery, but you'd have to go to night shift, and we're like, we're not doing that again. So to be in women's health in the clinic, it was like a gift. I love it. Um, yeah, just genuinely passionate about it. Just that I made that way.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you've known since you're six. Yeah, it's just who you are. Yeah. Cool. So um, so you're gathering friends, people here. We go to a decent sized, you know, pretty big church for considering the area and stuff. So you've you're gathering, you got the Nelsons, you know, living life with them. Um, I'm assuming living life with other young couples and yeah, building a community and and all those things. Yeah. Um, so at some point you decide to have um another baby, which probably only would have been what a year ago, year and a half ago, or yes.
SPEAKER_00:I think it was like August we found out we were pregnant.
SPEAKER_03:So last August. Last August.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he's almost six months now.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay. Okay, so we're pretty fresh moving into what we're really here to talk about. So to kind of how you made your way here, we had a service where we were people, we had five people talk about how their community, you know, at the church and stuff, um how community has really kind of helped them in certain areas and stuff. And you got up and you Sky alert, you said, um, kind of volunteered you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Accidentally signed me up.
SPEAKER_03:Accidentally, yeah, in quotes. Actually, uh so you mentioned that you had postpartum depression, and I've talked to other women about other things that you know, as a man, you hear about, but you obviously I we don't experience it. Shelley didn't experience really, we just experienced kind of normal baby stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So you had mentioned that you had postpartum depression, and I'm like that's heavy. I know that obviously can't relate, but I know it's such a heavy thing and can be a heavy thing. And and you mentioned that there were some people that really surrounded you from our church and really kind of got you through. And I'm like, I would love to talk to her about that. So that's kind of where we've come to. So so you have James, postpartum, first child, belly issue, anxiety, kind of dealing with that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it was even when we were praying through like when should we have a second child? It's like we don't have this stuff figured out yet, still with his allergies, and I'm supposed to be giving him these different tree nuts, but it's like have the epi pen ready. And it's like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:So it was oh gosh, you're just like introducing and preparing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, we're still that. Yes. Literally, that's what I've been assigned.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm like, that's so Audrey, that's so good.
SPEAKER_00:It's a lot, yeah. Yes. So we're in the middle of that, and it's like, I want to take care of James and do a good job at it. Like, should we have a second child when? Or I mean we knew we wanted another, but we're sure. It was still when the pet. But it was like a big deal to say, like, okay, like we're gonna do this, because really it's like, well, there's never gonna be a good time with his allergies. That's probably the, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. Um Yeah, and you probably I know we our ours are two years and a couple months apart. You want probably I'm assuming you kind of want them kind of close together so they're buddies. Yes, you know. Um, so so you obviously you decide you're pregnant in August and deliver six months ago.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, April.
SPEAKER_03:About yeah, April. Wow, it's this is so fresh. So, how did that go? How was your birth? How was that?
SPEAKER_00:My birth was the best. I could do a whole separate podcast about that. I I tell people it wasn't what I wanted, it was what I desired, actually. Like I was induced with James, and um I really wanted to go into labor on my own because I I just wanted that experience. I wanted to see what my body could do.
SPEAKER_03:Um so I'm gonna pause you just for a second. So the with James, you're connected, you're you're induced, but you're connected to the situation, you're connected to James and the experience, the old thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It was like a crazy, it took three days to get him out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That was rough.
SPEAKER_00:We were doing great. We felt at peace about it with God, but everyone else is like, you're still there. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Well, the due date is the due date, right? The due date is when they come.
SPEAKER_00:He came on his due date. It came actually on his due date. Three days after the induction. Right, right. But um, so yeah, it was that was a I had a really positive experience with that. Really great. Um, but yeah, I just wanted it to be different this time. Like the induction is just so sterile and not like I didn't, I'd never felt a contraction on my own. And I just wanted to experience that as a woman and like as someone who works in Obi, you know, just like I want to be able to speak to it. I want to experience it.
SPEAKER_03:It's the part that I've gotta, I gotta remember that it I it's such a connector part. Like it's so like you're this is what you do, this is who you are. Like I I knew that coming in, but I kind of forgot that's a huge part of this thing.
SPEAKER_00:I've only done I've only worked in OBGYN for three years. Yeah. Um, so I'm not actually like super well versed or knowledgeable in all of it. Actually, I've done all kinds of other nursing. Um, but I care. Like it's stuff that I look up and am passionate about even before I had the job. But yeah, yeah, I am.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so birth. So it was the birth that you desired.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. Went into labor on my own, um, labored at home for a while. Um he I think labor started. I was like at Starbucks praying to God, like, should I get induced or not? Because I was past my due date. And my midwives were like, we can totally induce you. We can totally not. And I was like, God, what do I do? And while I was sitting there, I went into labor, like started contracting. I was like, That's hilarious. Oh my gosh, God, like please. And so that was at like 2 p.m. Um, and I think like by 6 or 7 p.m., it was like I'm really in labor. And then 9 p.m. we went to the hospital and 1 a.m. he was born. So pretty quick, like 12 hours, you know, total and like spaced out contractions at Starbucks at 2 p.m. And right, yeah, it was it was pretty perfect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So the birth and everything was Yeah, it went really fast for me.
SPEAKER_00:Like I expected it to be a long time.
SPEAKER_03:At hospital, yes, when you walk, yep.
SPEAKER_00:I went to Peace Health, love, loving it. Okay, that's where I delivered James as well.
SPEAKER_03:Um that's where the girls were born.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, Skylar was born there too. But it was called something else back then.
SPEAKER_03:Uh Southwest Washington I don't know. Yeah, okay, yes, southwest, yeah. Southwest.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, and then it's um it was the same midwife who delivered James, which is so special. And um, and I love her. I just love my midwives, you know. I know them from working with them in the office and stuff. And so um, yeah, it it went by really quick and it felt almost like what? Like unreal, where they're like, you're 10 centimeters, you need to start pushing. And I'm like, what? Like, I thought I was like gonna have a baby tomorrow or something, not tonight, you know. Um, so that part was like a little crazy of like, what? Because it took three days with James.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, completely different example.
SPEAKER_00:So you just don't expect for nine, yeah. I was there three hours versus three days before the baby came out, you know? So you're just like, what? That's wild, yeah. Shock. Um, but yeah, it was just me and Skylar, and I went unmedicated for a long time. Um, like I got to 10 centimeters before I got the epidural, and so it was just like to do that was just wild, and and I love it.
SPEAKER_03:So you did eventually get an epidural. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Shelly swears by those. Yeah, yes. She's those uh just makes everything so much better.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03:So you have so your second baby Jacob. Jacob. So two boys. So so have Jacob. So walk me through moving forward. How does everything look? You're at the hospital, yeah, you go home, uh-huh, like the next day or the next day. Yeah, you're fine, Jacob's okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, Jacob's healthy. James was at home with Skylar's mom.
SPEAKER_03:And how are you doing at that time?
SPEAKER_00:You know, you're tired, but um, and you know, I was I haven't like gone through all of this out loud with anybody, so this will be interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Like, I was like, Well, listen, I forgot to mention uh and I want to mention it now. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I'm going to, I guess. I really appreciate you uh having this conversation with me because it is very intimate. Yeah, it's a deep conversation. We don't know each other. I don't even want to say a ton. We really don't know each other at all. So I'm I'm really grateful that you felt good and safe enough to to come and talk to me about this. Because it is a very and you really haven't walked vocally, like that's amazing to me that uh I get to do that with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So I think thank you so much. Yeah, really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I'm I'm honored. And I when you asked me, I mean, I think I said yes to the podcast before you even told me what it was gonna be about. But then I was like, wait, what are we gonna talk about? Yeah, but I am, you know, I was thinking, I was like, you know, saying it out loud, all like, and I was like, it's hard. For me to line it all up, so I was like, you know, everything leading up to this, I can answer pretty quickly. And I'm like, oh, and I'll probably go home and think about things and have more clarity later, which is okay. But yeah, yeah. I so I um yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So moving forward, um, you've come home, yeah, you're feeling all right, yeah, fatigued from the experience.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and I just remember feeling like really overstimulated. Like I was like, this is a lot. Like James was so excited to see his brother, you know, and then he's like kind of screaming and whatever, and you're just like, okay. And then I mean, you literally aren't sleeping. The baby's feeding every two hours. So you're maybe sleeping 30 minutes at a time. Like it's like from the beginning of the feed to the end of the feed. And feeding takes 40 minutes.
SPEAKER_03:Then Skyler would change his diaper so I could lay down, maybe, you know, like and did you have any anxiety about stomach issues, like reliving, going through that again? You know, we had just because it was such a heavy, like lay laborious thing to to handle.
SPEAKER_00:I I was more so like praying against and asking people to pray. Yeah, I did. We like I specifically asked people to pray for his gut, like let him come out with a healthier gut and really like the food allergies, like to live your life with an epi pen and you know, like that is hard and scary.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so I was like kind of in the back of my head, like, um, or it was on my mind before and asked for prayer over that specifically because I was worried about it. Um, but it wasn't like on my mind, particularly when we came home or had the baby. Like that wasn't yet.
SPEAKER_03:Did you change your diet or anything?
SPEAKER_00:Leading up to you're not supposed to.
SPEAKER_03:Just do what you do. Okay. All right.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. So I didn't change anything.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and then yeah, you know, it's like I was so tired those two. I'm like not someone who can function on little sleep. Like my brain capacity really crashes. Um, and so I don't even remember a ton like from those first two weeks. Like it was a blur. And part of it is like, when did the postpartum depression start? You know, these things like yeah, the hormone changes. Like you have those emotional crashes, anyways, usually or the the hormone crashes and usually comes with emotional crashes, you know, whatever. But physically, I was feeling a lot better than with James. Like I could get up and walk. I was on bed rest for a week with James like postpartum. Um, but I could get up and walk. I was like, this is great. I feel really able, you know, like that part was good. Um, but I remember feeling like this is really overwhelming and being really worried, like, what am I gonna do when Skylar goes back to work? Skylar got six weeks off. And I kept thinking, what am I gonna do when he goes back? It just felt like overstimulating of like just building. Yeah. Uh-huh. And it was just like, you know, I'm trying to breastfeed the baby, and James is hopping on the chair and stepping on the and you're like, get off, please. But like that was a lot for me. Um and then at our two-week appointment, or the baby's two week, like his first pediatrician visit. Yeah, I was like, So the baby's had mucusy poop, pretty much since he's come home from the hospital. Like, is that normal? Google said, like, thumbs normal, you know, like I'm too anxious to be on Google much these days.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:This guy just banned me for good reason. But the doctor's like, no, I'm like trying to pigeon. He's like, no, that's not normal. And I'm like, okay, so I need to start cutting out some food. Basically, dairy and soy are like the most common. He was like, Yeah, you need to cut those out. Like, um, the baby was pretty fussy. Like, or actually, in the beginning, I don't remember, but yeah, he was having a lot of mucusy poop. Sorry, guys, nurse here. Talk about poop. Um, which was the same symptoms James had is why I started changing my diet. But James and Jacob ended up with blood in their poop, which is not okay. So, and they're screaming, crying. Yeah, because there's so much inflammation, there's blood in it, like that hurts, I'm sure, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so yeah, the two-week appointment was when we started being like, okay. Um, and I had told myself beforehand, I'll cut out dairy and soy. I already don't eat gluten because it gives me eczema. Clearly, you can see like this is my children, you know, with these kind of shoes. Um, and but I was like, but we're not gonna like go off the deep end. I'm not gonna eat lamb, quinoa, and sweet potatoes for six months again. Like that wasn't healthy for me or the baby or a family.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so that was like had been my game plan originally. So we cut those out to like start to see like are things gonna improve. Um, and it didn't. So then I start cutting out the corn, the rice, all the things James was intolerant to. It's still not working. And it was like, well, if James and I just eat the same diet, like I, you know, I'm I'm okay doing that, I guess, was like my next line of like, I'm already cooking that. It's nutrition, it's like it's a well-rounded, you know, like we'll try that. Still having bloody poop. So I'm like cutting it out, cutting it out. We get down to eight ingredients, like not eight foods where it's like down and like avocados, yeah, olive oil. Like, um, and we're like, we gotta stop this. Like we have James. I have James.
SPEAKER_03:James is James, yes, and Scelly's gotta go.
SPEAKER_00:He goes back to work, which I know. I was like, are there more? I can just go on the kind of the plan. We end up with COVID. James gets croup two different times, so he needs steroids because he gets croup like that, like barky cough, whatever. It's pretty crazy. Two-year-olds on steroids is pretty crazy, so that's going on. Then I'm like, we gotta switch to formula. Like, I'm so sad. Like, yeah, again, I value and I love breastfeeding. But I'm like, this is what's healthy for our family and for me.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, I uh yeah, the that breastfeeding part is uh again, I'm a dude, can't relate, can't, but I know it's such a value to Shelly and being a nurse and knowing what that does for like you, yeah, and what you're giving them as a mom and their baby, like it's made for them.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I so it's not just being sad, yeah. No, it's like devastating that you can't do this for your child. Like you're like it's such a bonding experience.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. And I like skin to skin, like like physical touch is my love language. A lot of moms are like, I'm so touched out. And I'm like, I'm not. Like, I love this. Um, but yeah, so it was, I don't like, and I was I was already like getting into this, like, I'm not doing great mode. So what would like what happened was I was like, well, I bet LaCroix, I'm eating eight foods, and I'm like, I bet LaCroix is okay, right? It's just natural flavors, which sometimes comes from corn, but like how much? I would drink a LaCroix and then he's screaming bloody murder. I'd eat zucchini because I'm like, that was one of the first foods I added with James, but I'm like, surely that'll be okay. Screaming. So then I'm like feeling horrible about myself. Like, why can't you just not drink the LaCroix, Audrey? You know, it's like this shame thing that starts going on, just like, just eat the eight foods and be happy with it. Like, and I'm just like, I just can't do this. And my midwife, who's amazing, um, had like told me, like, you know, like this time around, you might not be able to tolerate the the diet and those things as much. That would be normal to not tolerate it as much because you have two kids now. You know, you're not just at home with one kid eating three foods. Like, that was really hard, broke me down, but did it, and I came out stronger, you know? Yeah, this was like I I can't do this. I'm mad that I can't do it.
SPEAKER_03:Around you, that's like the pics are like it's like you can't get out of it. Yes, like what am I doing? What is happening? Yes, I can't, I gotta stop.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I'm like, and I don't want to, but I'm like, okay, let's let's do this. So Skylar's like, all right, like I had pumped, I'm like, he's like, let's bottle feed. So we do two bottles in a row. I pump to still my milk out, and I end up with that night mastitis, which is a breast infection, fever of 103.9, feeling horrible, you know. Like I'm like kind of yelling at Skylar, like, he's like, Can you get the baby? I'm like, I'm not okay. Like I'm not like he was like, What do you need? I'm like, I need to lay in bed and I need you to bring me some Tylenol. Like I I'm not, you know, like I can't move. Like the cold air when I like take the blanket off like fruits. Yeah, it's like stinging my skin, you know, like my whole body aches. Like calling my midwife on call, you know, like they're ordering antibiotics, which I'm like, great, antibiotics, like, but clearly I'm so sick, like I need to take it, you know. Um, and then I'm like, great, you're when you have mastitis. Um, it's better, like not having good milk flow can cause it, um, like cause a plug duct, and then that can cause the sitting milk can cause uh mastitis. So it's better to breastfeed than it is to um pump. So now I'm like, now and it's a 10-day course of antibiotics four times a day. So I'm stuck breastfeeding for 10 more days. I'm like, oh my gosh, I thought I was like gonna get out, you know, of this eight foods. Cause it was, I was getting broken down. Like I was like, I like unwell, where I was just like, we ran out of raise raisins, where it was like my treat. That was like my dessert or like my not spinach or quinoa.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it we run out of raisins and I'm like losing it. Like I can't do this, you know, and it's like again, you like feeling like, why can't like people in other places just eat this food or there's they're hungry all the time. Why can't I be? You know, like so. I'm like, I'm not malnourished by any means, you know, but it's like undernourished, maybe, you know, like I'm not getting enough calories. I'm making so much milk. I make a ton of milk, like breast milk. Like, so I'm losing these calories. I I was definitely under calorie or like not yet getting enough calories. So I'm I'm starting to lose it at this point, like not well, you know. Like I'm not sleeping, I'm not getting enough calories. Like this is yeah, this is the road. Like, we get COVID. Like James is on steroids, you know, like it's just like this.
SPEAKER_03:And the COVID is just like a clincher. Like, why are we getting COVID? Seriously. I mean, obviously, it's still out there, it's still.
SPEAKER_00:But it's like right now, and it's 2025. What is happening?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, and I'd always like on top of everything else.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:It's I mean, can I have a cold? Right. What would we have COVID for?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_03:You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:I know. I know.
SPEAKER_03:I can't again, I've said a couple times. I can't even imagine how you felt. I it feels so heavy to me. Like I feel something as you're telling me. Um, it feels so heavy. Yeah. And so like, I gotta get out of this box. I gotta get out of here. Yes, I was feeling trapped.
SPEAKER_00:I was trapped, and that was like, yes, I was trapped. I can't stop breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_03:Like I can only eat these things.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, these eight foods.
SPEAKER_03:I can't stop breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Was that painful? Oh or was that was it a relief?
SPEAKER_00:Uh but it but breastfeeding in itself wasn't, but like the fever would come back every night. So I'm like for three nights.
SPEAKER_03:So you're just sick. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Like you're sick. So I'm so sick. And Skylar was back. I I got mastitis the night. Skylar was going back to work that Sunday morning. It was Saturday night. I woke up where I was like at Saturday? Yes. That's like in the middle of the night, Saturday. I woke up like my boob hurts pretty bad. I woke up in the morning and I was like, and had a fever. I was like, I have mastitis.
SPEAKER_03:Like and he goes to back that he goes back to work that morning.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, 8 a.m. 7, whatever, leaves for church. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, that is so heavy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I was just like, that's so wild.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. It was like it's kind of crazy. Like when you like say all these, it's like you put that all in a pot and mix it up. Like, this isn't gonna go well, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, like and on top of all, on top of it, you have James, yeah, and you're not getting any sleep. So it's all the normal baby stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. Just having two kids is really hard.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, having one kid's a lot, having two is a lot, and then you throw in all these other things.
SPEAKER_03:All the other things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So it feels like it was, which there's different things for different people. Like everyone probably has hard things anyways or whatever. But it was sure. This is getting pretty crazy. Like this is Yeah. Seems a little abnormal, like a little more than usual to deal with. Um, I don't know if their moms would.
SPEAKER_03:So how's that? So I guess keep how did that progress then?
SPEAKER_00:So then um I yeah, I stay on the diet, I finish the antibiotics, I meet with a lactation consultant who had seen before. Because I have so much milk. And I was like, I got mastitis because I pumped two times. What am I gonna do? Like, how am I gonna not get mastitis and wean off? So she makes like a six to eight week plan for me to stop. And I'm like sitting there, and I think it was a Saturday. Yeah, we usually Sabbath on Saturdays usually turn our phone off.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:And so I'm like sitting there, like, how do I get out of this? Like, how do I like and again, I didn't know I was feeling unwell, but I was just like trapped. Like that was the word.
SPEAKER_03:I was just like I'm trapped, and I was like, That's why that's the only word that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Like I yeah, I'm trying to take Sudafed to dry up my milk. That makes the baby colicky, so he's screaming all day, and then I'm losing it. Like, you know, like the baby's screaming all day, like I'm so irritable. I'm not like generally like anger isn't I think I definitely need to pay attention to it more, but that's not my like baseline or like where I default. Sure. I'm like angry, yeah. So angry, so irritable.
SPEAKER_03:How are you feeling? Because I know I've heard women talk about the connection with their babies. How in the midst of this, how are your connections? Because you're like basically trying to keep them not alive. I don't know if that's over dramatic. It might that might be the case, but you're trying to make sure that they're healthy.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So how's your connection with with them?
SPEAKER_00:And again, no one had asked me, no one had, I think, or sorry, at my six week appointment, my midwife asked me, Are you bonding with baby? And I said, Yeah. And right after I said that, I thought, am I? And I got home later, like, I don't think I am. Like, just out of my mouth, it'd come like, yeah, like, um, and no, I was not bonding with him at all. He was like, it like makes me sad to like know what I was thinking about him. Like, where it was just like, like, I don't, I didn't think he was cute, which is crazy. He's the cutest baby in the world. Literally didn't think he was cute, didn't want to be with him, didn't want to be with James. Skylar would be like, which kid do you want to be in charge of this, you know, on the weekends or like which one you want to? And I was like, neither. I don't want to be with either. Yeah. Was my answer. Like, I don't want to be with either of these kids. Like, I was not bonding.
SPEAKER_03:How is he how is he processing all this? Skyler. Like man, I know. Is he wondering what is happening? Is he confused? Is he just trying to do the best he can? Right.
SPEAKER_00:We're in survival mode. Yeah. We're both in survival mode. Like he's picking up the slack in a lot of places because I'm not. Like, I'm like, I'm gonna go lay in bed now, was what I was saying.
SPEAKER_03:Like And I would imagine I want to say this the right way. There's nothing we can do.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that's such a I'm gonna watch my words, crappy, like you feel guilty. Yeah, I don't in any way want to minimize the other.
SPEAKER_00:I I'm a big proponent of like we're just we're helpless and it's hard for you in a different way.
SPEAKER_03:There's nothing like we want our wives to be okay. Yeah, we want them to be safe, we want them to feel good, and you're going through hell.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Which I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:Like, and does that am I saying that the right way? I oh yeah, no, that's in in terms of the husband's perspective. I don't want it to sound like I'm taking anything away from what's happening to you.
SPEAKER_00:Genuinely, no. When people are like, Oh, my husband said it was so hard to watch me deliver, and I'm like, it was hard to watch you go unmedicated and be screaming and crying. Like, yeah, that's like I'm a big performance. Yeah, I'm like, that is hard. What would you feel like? Like you were maybe it was harder. We don't even have to rank them. It was hard for both of us to deliver a baby.
SPEAKER_03:Like, you know, like that's okay. There's nothing we can do. Yeah, and so we can support. Yes, yes, we can be there.
SPEAKER_00:The word helpless, I've heard definitely from the labor and delicious.
SPEAKER_03:Because we just want you to be okay.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. And I know, and you're such a good husband and dad. Um, yes, I know that was because I don't know. We have not like totally sat, like I've um he's talked to his friends to fill them in about like Audrey's post-part depression, you know, and I'll like eavesdrop a little to be like, oh, how does he how does he process it or whatever? But I haven't um we, you know, we've made it out of like the dark hole, which I'll like, you know, we can continue into or whatever, but I can't I can't speak too much for Skylar of what it was like. It was the words we use were like we were drowning. Yeah, he was drowning too, was what it was was we were both drowning. Um, and when you're like in survival, it's you know, it's not like let's stop and think about how we're and you know, we're a couple months out of it now and getting back into routines and we're doing our weekly date night check-in, you know, whatever. And so we haven't totally sat.
SPEAKER_03:I don't know if it's kind of processed all this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, we haven't done that yet. So you'll have to get him on here or something and splice that in. Hear his side. I'd love to hear it all in detail. Right, yeah. Yeah, because I'm sure he probably has uh a lot to say, but yeah, of intentional things to say. But um, yeah, it was it was a Saturday, like I was saying, um, that I'm sitting breastfeeding the baby, thinking about my options of okay, I can do this six to eight week plan to try to not get mastitis of weaning the baby. That's option one. I can start pumping and bottle feeding because you can control exactly how much you're pumping off and wean a little faster, maybe a four to six week plan. Um or I could go cold turkey, which nobody recommends. And I called our friend Joy because she had walked with me through the food and stomach stuff. Her children had had similar things. She's so good to walk with me with James through that um and all the anxiety, all the things that come with it. She has walked with me, and I thought, I gotta call her, like and ask her, like, well, these are my three options. Tell me if I'm crazy. Am I missing something? Yeah, like I don't think I'm gonna make it six to eight weeks. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm not gonna make like I don't know what that means, but in my head, I was like, I'm not gonna make it. And then to pump and then bottle feed, that's double the work, actually, than just breastfeeding. And so I was like, to add something else to my plate, and then you're doing the dishes for all, which is Skylar's Skylar's in charge of dishes, but still, you have to wash all of those pump parts and all the bottle. I don't even think I have enough to pump eight times a day. The baby's feeding eight times a day at this point.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And or you go cold turkey, and then what? You know, I'm like, I don't even know what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So I call Joy, I tell her the situation, and she's like, Audrey, you don't sound okay. And I just start bawling.
SPEAKER_03:That was my point.
SPEAKER_00:That was the like, I'm not okay. I don't know what I sounded like on the phone.
SPEAKER_03:You were, I guess, that survival drowning survival mode. So you're the all you're thinking is the mechanics of all this.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. How do we do that?
SPEAKER_03:Like so you're feeling a lot, but not feeling. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, totally. I have so much on, you know, like the release of crying was just like this has been building up for it's like a mom, you're a mom mode.
SPEAKER_03:I have to, I gotta figure this out. Yes, yes, I gotta work this out.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03:And it's all these options, doing this and doing that. Yeah, there's no release.
SPEAKER_00:So you just talk to her and she's like calling my eyes out. And she's she was like, Are you on medication? Have you called your doctor yet? Are you in therapy? It sounds like you need to go cold turkey. And I respect her, like telling me the heart that, you know, like not like, oh, like maybe, you know, she was like, You're not, you don't sound, you know, and I was like, I'm not okay. And she's like, You need to call Skylar right now. I was like, he's sitting in the living room. She's like, I'm gonna pray for you, and I'm gonna hang up and you need to go tell him right now. Like, and that's what she did, you know? Um, because she again has like walked with me like through these stuff. Um, and so I hang up with her, finished feeding the baby, and I walk out to Skylar. He's like sitting on the ground, reading his Bible, and I was like, babe, I need to talk to you. And I lay on the ground with him, I just said, I'm not okay. And I'm just like weeping on his in his lap, just falling my eyes out. Like, and he wasn't like, what? Like surprised, you know, like looking. This is you know, as I'm thinking about right now, I'm like, he wasn't surprised.
SPEAKER_03:Like, I'm sure he knew, you know, like he's Yeah, that's such an interesting spot to be in because you know, but you're not really doing like you don't, you're you're in that survival part. Like do you think there's some aware it's like you there you're not aware, but when it happens, it's like oh yeah, it's this is like I've been feel like you're aware of the feelings that you weren't feeling. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, as soon as she named it, I was like, Yes. Yeah, yes, yeah, which really all she said was you're not okay, like you don't sound okay. Right. And I when I said I said, Do you I'm not okay?
SPEAKER_03:He I might be projecting a little bit as a guy. Do you think he recognized it but was just hoping that things would be okay? Again, I don't know Skyler, so I'm just asking the question. So, and you know, it was like we just need to keep doing these things. I see that my wife is hurting. Um, do you think he was it was on his mind to name it or is afraid to name it again?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, yeah. Just a question, yeah, just a guess. Yeah, because I don't know for sure what I feel like.
SPEAKER_03:Or was so in the work of it that needed to be named to realize.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't think he knew how bad it was. Like I wasn't verbalizing to anybody.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like you're just kind of yeah, I don't think because he's gone during the day, you know, it's like you're doing all the things that your doctor's saying, but you're really kind of isolated.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, what do you mean doing this? What doctor?
SPEAKER_03:Like, you know, the plan and the plan, you know, all the things that you're you're pumping and oh yes, yes, yes, yeah. The ritual of all the things that you're supposed to be doing. Yeah, yeah. But you're doing it, you know, so you're communicating in those terms, but you're really kind of isolated.
SPEAKER_00:As far as how I'm feeling. Yes, yes, yes, yeah. So I don't think he could have even known the extent. I don't think he was surprised. Like he wasn't like he was just rubbing my back saying, yeah, yeah. Like I'm sure it made a lot of sense to what was going on, but I think yeah, I don't, I don't think I hadn't verbalized most of the dark things going up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I tell him that, and he was like, what do we need to do? Like what? And I was like, I need to stop breastfeeding. Like, I'm going cold turkey. And he's like, Okay, like let's call your lactation consultant. I call her, sweet Martha, leave her a voicemail crying. Like, can you call me back right away? Like, this is kind of urgent. It's a Saturday. She calls me back, you know, and was like, all right, this is what we're gonna do. Go buy this tea, go buy this, like we're gonna get a bandage, you're gonna wrap your chest, like all the things. She's like, this is what it's gonna be like, you know. Um, she's like, I could hear your voicemail, you're not doing okay. Like I, you know, like um, and um, yeah, so we made a plan and she'd said she was so, she's so good at like taking care of the emotional side of things. She was like, She said, What do you need for closure? Like, what is it gonna be? You're gonna stop breastfeeding, like tonight, you know, like this is gonna be the last thing. Like, what do you need to have closure to move forward? Like to, you know, kind of thing. And I had texted some lady friends, like, guys, does anyone have any idea of what I could do? Like, you know, like just taking, I got like a picture. I was like, Skylar, will you take a picture of me breastfeeding? Like, this makes me so sad. I'll probably cry a little bit. Like, let's get a video like of him, just like the little noises he makes and him on my chest, you know, like that was I was just like, let's like I just want it on photo, like in video, so I can look back at it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um because it's this, it's warning and letting this thing go that means so much to women, yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yes. Yep. Like and again, I I do I tell scar, I'm like, some women like you know, there's a spectrum of like, I like it, I hate it, I love it. I was like, I love it. Like I'm on that side, and I'm like to let it go, you know, and to do it this way felt like also sad, like this abrupt it's to not because I thought I'm gonna wean for six to eight weeks. I have six to eight weeks, you know, to kind of like soak it in and be present. Um, I had just been coping with like new girl. So I wasn't even like, you know, like in the middle of the night. I'm so excited. I'm like putting the TV on or like watching TV on my phone. So I like hadn't been present during the breastfeeding like I had been with James.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so like not even or excuse me, so so you're in this box, but you're really kind of physically in the same thing to a degree. Like you're just you're in bed, you're dealing with the you're just sick, you're just yeah. I'm so sorry. It's so so much.
SPEAKER_00:It was, it was. Um, but it did feel really sweet. Someone, someone was like, because I I was I told people, I'm going cold turkey. Feel free to feel free to pray that I don't get mastitis. I'm not gonna bother going to. Like, you know, I'm so like pessimistic about all this, whatever. Um, and then I asked Lisa and um another friend, Amy, um like, do you have anything in mind of like what could help bring me closure tonight? I'm gonna do my last breastfeed tonight, and then it's done. And Lisa was like, I went and I prayed, and this is what I felt like I heard from the Lord. You can take it or leave it, you know. But she was like, to just sit and rejoice. And she was like, maybe that's super offensive, and I'm so sorry. Like, you can rejoice and say, Thank you, God, that I have a chair to sit in while I breastfeed, you know. Um, but it was so sweet. That's what I that's what I did. I like was just in too dark of a place. Like, I can't even talk to God. If I did, I couldn't hear him anyways, was what it felt like. Like it's just I'm in the pit. Like, yeah, I know he's here, but I can't see him, I can't hear him. Yeah, I'm too frustrated, sad, angry to even like ask for, you know, like, and so that was what I did. Late, I think like 11 p.m. was my last feed with him. And I sat there and I rejoiced because I'd pictured like I'm gonna sit there and just cry the whole time, and it's gonna be this like negative, sad thing or whatever. But I had fed him like 500 times in two months, and like it was like I have an app or whatever. And so it was just like, thank you, God, like thank you for the skin to skin we had.
SPEAKER_03:Was that hard to vocalize?
SPEAKER_00:To say those thank you. Um, it wasn't as hard as I thought. And it it was me connecting with God for the first time in weeks, actually. Oh, in a while, yeah, and so it felt really good and really sweet. And I think I like cried a tiny, like happy tear at the end, like, thank you, God, that in this thing that I'm grieving, I feel like this thing's being ripped for me. Like, I do know you're here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so it wasn't hard, but as you did it, did you feel comfort? Did you feel an embrace, maybe in a in a closeness again? Yes, yeah, and a an awareness of his presence. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I was like, God, you even love me enough like you spoke to my friend to tell me because I wasn't listening. And I just felt so loved in that, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's uh that's the interesting part because I it it it's kind of just shows how hard something like this is for women because you're a nurse, you're an OB, right? Yeah, you're a Christian, you love Jesus, got a very supportive husband, you got you know, very supportive friends, but it's it's so interesting to me, and it's hard to wrap your mind around how it can just kind of turn and and you have all the problems, and it's almost like you get into this work mode of solving problems, and uh and and all those things that you're connected to, it's what you do for a living, it's you have Jesus in your life and friends, but it it's so sometimes easy because you're surviving the all that kind of almost disappears.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh huh.
SPEAKER_03:Is that kind of what that's kind of what I'm taking in, what I'm hearing is that like you have the support, yeah, but you get It's and and and I could see people like, well, you have people around you, but you're just trying to s get through this thing.
SPEAKER_00:Literal surviving and keeping the drowning, yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, drowning while holding this baby up.
SPEAKER_03:Like such a picture.
SPEAKER_00:Like it's I'm drowning, I'm drowning, and I'm holding them up. Like, how am I so there's not just room?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. There's almost no room to think outside of that that you do have support, that you do have a lifeline, that you do like it gets so dark.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:It's it almost reminds me. I don't know. This may be a weird analogy, but did you ever see Get Out the movie?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Awesome movie. But if there's a part, I I don't want to take time to explore it, but there's a part in the movie that that visually the there's people like in the blackness and they're falling, and they can hear the voices outside of them, but they're like falling and trying to reach, and it's just dark, and they can't get out. Yeah. And as you explain this, that's and people I think that have seen that movie, I think that kind of resonates. Is that kind of paint kind of a picture?
SPEAKER_00:Like I'm in darkness.
SPEAKER_03:But I don't even know if you're reaching out.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's like you're almost like like the drowning part, you're like, I need to keep the baby up here. I need to keep it alive. Yeah. And you're just sinking and sinking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, that that's seems like a very accurate visual.
SPEAKER_03:So you so you kind of break with her and to move forward a little bit, you're with Skylar and you start kind of you call Well, I call my midwife, who's like a friend, you know, and I'm like, can you see me ASAP or yeah, can you see me ASAP, you know, um, for a video visit.
SPEAKER_00:And um and just all the things that Joy had mentioned. It was like I was already on like a really low dose of an anti-anxiety med, but it also helps with depression. Um, and so she was like, okay, we're gonna up that. We're gonna start you on this. Like birth control can help decrease your milk supply. You can start the pseudofed now because you're not gonna be, I'm just gonna pump and dump. I'm not gonna be eating the baby, so it's not gonna make it done. Um she was like, you need to find a therapist. Like, you know, like where I just set out to do all those things. Um and then so yeah, like we get we get all that going.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think just to pause for a minute? Do you think that that work because you're working, you're doing all the things, but do you think that that work helped you get out? Because it's almost a different kind of like, all right, I've got new assignments. Yeah, and it's an out, it's helping me kind of get out of this funk assignments. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, different work. Does that yeah, it's yeah, it's different work. I remember that.
SPEAKER_03:It's like now I've got an objective. Yes, it's not there's I'm no objective.
SPEAKER_00:There's a way out. Well, even it was just I'm not strapped anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like I'm so close to getting out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like you finally see some light. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yes. And it was encouraging of um like my midwife saying, um, you know, like the more you throw at postpartum depression, or once she labeled it, because I said, What is this? Like, can you tell me what this is? Like, just so I have a name for like what is this just postpartum depression? She was like, Yeah, postpartum depression, or like a depressive episode would be like this is um, and so just even like okay, that's what I can say to other people to have a language to help people understand, you know, like even telling Skylar, like, yes, she confirmed this is what I'm experiencing is helpful. Um, and then she had asked some questions, even like that.
SPEAKER_03:Is there like a sense of and I think you kind of already answered this, not a freedom, but like a realization, like, okay, now we have something that we can work on, deal with.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Because we now we can got a name for it.
SPEAKER_00:Before I just thought, this is my life and I hate it. That was like, I literally was like, I hate my life.
SPEAKER_03:Like, and I'm looking at six to eight weeks of yes, all like that is so long when you're in the like yes, in the pits.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And when they had said that, I just I was like, I don't know what. I was like, but if something doesn't change, something bad's gonna happen. Like I'm gonna hurt myself or somebody. Like that was like a scary, like I you're not vocalizing that. No, I hadn't said I no, my midwife was the first person to ask me. Yeah, and so then you're saying it out loud.
SPEAKER_03:And that's what I yeah, that's what you know, you hear things as you know, just moving through life. That's what you know, it was part of the interest in talking to you a a small bit, is that heaviness, that part of it is so can be so dangerous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yes, you know, yeah, no, and like I literally thank God, like I don't I mean, I've yeah, I've talked to a lot of people now in the last two months who've shared, oh, I had it too. And some people didn't know what it was until like a year later, or they were dealing with it for a whole year. And by the grace of God, they didn't hurt themselves or someone else, but had plans to um like so scary. Yeah, like it's terrible. So it is, it is, and um yeah, like I just genuinely thank God that it it didn't. And I again I don't didn't have plans for anything, but I just was like, I just knew if something if this goes on, so there wasn't any planning, but it was like an awareness of I I something bad is gonna happen. I cannot control myself at this point. Like yeah, like I couldn't be alone with the boys for a couple days, which was like so sad and hard.
SPEAKER_03:Like I just like was it a torn feeling of because I've I've just always hear it's kind of um where you just don't have that connection. So like you don't feel anything for them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I actually, which I I'm not super well versed with postpartum, like you know, like I give um patients the screening, and then if it's um above 12 points, then I notify the provider. Yeah. To they need to meet with them within, you know. Like that's my, you know, like I don't, I'm not the one who like addresses it. And and I kind of thought, like, oh, yeah, does it just look like, oh, I'm really sad or you know, and I've talked to a couple women on the phone um as their nurse and being like, okay, like you don't sound okay, like you know, like let's um get a visit with you in like the next hour to see somebody, but it was it was way worse being in it, which of course is not surprising.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and you're not the the that's part of the interesting to me thing to me is that you're that's not a lot of training.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right.
SPEAKER_03:But you know the protocols, yes, but you're so in it that I didn't so lost in it that you're not even thinking about asking those questions.
SPEAKER_00:No, and I like I have said I was like, I kind of feel a little embarrassed. Not not really, but it's just like I'm an OBGIN nurse with postpartum depression, and I didn't know what it was.
SPEAKER_03:That was part of the story that I was so interested in is how do you reconcile that? But you're so I don't think it's nothing, but it's like you're drowning.
SPEAKER_00:If you're drowning, do you know like or you know, it's like yeah, there is no awareness. Right. Your head's underwater, yeah. Not like, oh, my head's above and water's splashing down.
SPEAKER_03:Let's count to 12 and see how many points that I'm hitting. Right. And right, you're not there.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, I wasn't.
SPEAKER_03:Like it's so wild.
SPEAKER_00:Which is also like even scarier to me. I'm like, was it my lack of education and training? But it's like, I haven't slept in eight weeks. Like, you know, like am I um and it was again, I wasn't verbalizing it to anybody. So then no one's giving you that feedback. You kind of rash, I rationalize. I don't want to say you, but I rationalize with myself. Like I had literally thought, like, man, I wish a car would just hit me when the boys weren't in the car. Like that would be just like I could just die. Like, and when my midwife asked me, like, have you had any thoughts of harming yourself? Like she blatantly blatantly asked, and I've blatantly asked people, right? It's like, have you had any thoughts of harming yourself or others? Like, we have to ask that. And I said, I didn't want to, like, I wasn't gonna crash and do it, but I wanted that to happen. And you're saying it out loud, and she's like, That's not healthy, that's not normal. You're like, You're right, because I kind of rationalized, like, everyone hates sometimes.
SPEAKER_03:So wild what our brains do because you're trained to ask those questions, but you're so in it. It's not, I mean, I've I'm repeating myself, but it's so wild that like you're thinking those things and you're aware that you're thinking those things. Yes, and I'm telling myself, but not an aware, yeah, not an awareness that you ask those questions.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes, because if somebody else told me that, it would be immediately reported. Right. Yes, yes, no. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Which again, you don't sleep, you don't eat enough calories for eight weeks. I mean, your brain's just not working. No, it's not. It really wasn't. My brain was not Yeah. Yeah. Like you'd have that. Not even close. No, no, it was it was not functioning well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So but you're moving Well, yeah, at least to go back. You're you got new work to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. And actually, and it and that felt like kind of overwhelming. Like, you know, it was like someone had reminded me we get like six free sessions of counseling through our work. And I was cause I was on maternity leave. So some kind of fit too. Um, so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna find someone there. And so like that part didn't, I was already on a medication, so we're gonna up the dose. Like, um, so it didn't feel like hard work necessary, you know, because sometimes that kind of stuff can be. If I had to find somebody like a if I had to find a therapist or counselor, like through my insurance and stuff, that would have been unbearable.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's tough.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But so luckily I was like, here, boom, female who's like you can put in postpartum depression, book it for tomorrow, video visit. You know, and scalar is like so accommodating of like, what do you need, you know? Um, and then Lisa Nelson came over and was like, okay, because I told I told people, so I have postpartum depression, I'm not okay. I'm going cold turkey, like, you know, she comes, she's like, I'm coming to your house tomorrow. And she was like, brings a pen and paper and is like, all right, what? How are we gonna help you get out of this? Like, and made a plan with me. She's like, We're signing, like, we're getting you another meal train. And I'm like, this is so embarrassing. My last meal train just ended a couple weeks ago, you know, like my newborn meal train. And she was just like, You're not eating enough. So she's dropping off food like every day. Her mom's dropping off food at my house. Like, I've got some extra salmon and potatoes. Like, just you need to eat, Audrey. Your brain can't function at the amount you're like, you know, yeah, you're not eating enough. Like she's like, we just need to get you like eating and sleeping, and then you can just be a normal postpartum land, you know, just a normal postpartum mom. Like that's exhausted and whatever. And so she literally came and helped me because I was like, I don't, I'm not making a plan. I don't have capacity and I don't want to. Like, you know, it's like that's overwhelming, and I just don't even want to, honestly. Like, I um like taking my my meds are easier than than coming up with a plan and making a meal train. So she did that, signed, sent it out, got people to sign up, so I have food being delivered again. And Skylar did every bottle for like a week. Um and so he did every night, you know, he did eight bottles a day, or like I guess on the weekends, whatever. Um and then yeah, this is when we called in the community of like, can someone come be with me for eight hours until Skylar gets home? I can be alone with them for 30 minutes. He leaves at 7 30. Can he be here at eight?
SPEAKER_03:Right. Oh wow. Yeah, that's how that's so heavy.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. In 30 minutes, yeah. And it's just like I just I don't know what'll happen if we go past that. Like so, yeah. And it's a big ask. Can you come to my house and watch my two kids with me for eight hours, please? And do most of the bottle feeds, and I'm gonna go lay in bed for a little bit and take a nap.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. There are people doing bedtime routine or like doing nap time with James. Yeah. They're coming over to help me load up to go to the 9 a.m. service, then they go home and they come to the 11 because I need to get I need someone to be there with me for those 30 minutes till Skylar. Or till I get to church and I'm around people.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and how are you doing that during that time? The 30 minutes? No, church. Like be was it like a bag of emotions because you're out, yeah, you're around people.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, which on the next one. And I just started saying it. Did you do people say, How are you doing? Not good. I have postpartum depression. So half the people in the lobby know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was like, So you're just saying it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I'm just saying it. Like, I'm not gonna pretend.
SPEAKER_03:How was that? How was the reaction how people were you talking, were you saying that to people you kind of have relationship with how is the kind of a general women?
SPEAKER_00:Well, what was shocking was so many women said, and I can't give a stat on how many, but it feels like 70% of people over the women said, Man, I had that too. I'm like, what? Like, was shocked at how many people said they had it with at least one of their kids. Um, because you don't you don't necessarily have it with all, or like you can have it with your first and not your second. Like, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so many of the women that I talked to said that they had the same thing.
SPEAKER_03:In that moment, how did you feel when they would share that? Do you write? Do you remember? Did it clock with you at all?
SPEAKER_00:I was really surprised at how many people kept saying that. And I was almost frustrated that I was like, what? Like, why didn't and everyone was just saying, like, man, like going from one to two kids is so difficult. It's so hard at a baseline. And I was like, did people tell me that? Like, did did it like which if someone had told me that, would it have made a difference?
SPEAKER_02:No, but I just I was just really surprised.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, and yeah, a little frustrated, I was like, what all these women you're telling me you had this, and which again, when did they have a space to share it? I don't know, but there was oh yeah, good.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so you're so so I guess I was like, did you feel comfort in that? Did you feel like seen? But you're like, you're still like I don't even know if you I don't even know if you like recovering. I don't even think. No, yeah, right. No, no, I'm not. No, I'm just in an out. I'm just saying it. I don't really care what you think.
SPEAKER_00:And trying to live a little and and be safe, and people are like healthy for me. Being at home with two kids alone was like not a safe yeah, not even like literally, but just like I don't feel comfortable, like I don't feel happy here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so like going to be around people no comfort. No, yeah, yeah. It's like I don't I don't want to be there alone with these two kids if you're a minor ugly space at the moment.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So when they're sharing that, are you well, you said you're frustrated. Are you blaming but not blaming?
SPEAKER_00:Like, why didn't like I don't know if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03:Like it makes sense in my head. Like, why didn't somebody tell me?
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, I could have told you.
SPEAKER_03:But like you said, I don't know if it would have made any difference.
SPEAKER_00:I know, I know.
SPEAKER_03:But it's just the headspace that you're in.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, yeah. So who knows? But I there was one person who had told me after James that they had had postpartum depression. And so she came and checked in on me. How are you doing? She kind of asked me those informally those questions and had told me, and I called her and I said, Can you come over? And she was like, I was like, I was thinking, like, can you come over this week? She said, Do you need me come over right now? Like, so sweet and loving. Like she was gonna drop it and come up, you know. But so to have that person, and then I could ask her story. And can you tell me what you thought about your kids? What were the ugly bad thoughts that you don't want to share? You wouldn't, you know, like, okay, that was so helpful. And so, like, I was like, Oh, I all these other people I interact with on Sundays or, you know, other days of the week or whatever, where it's like, oh, you had this, like, but I didn't know I could call you or find comfort in you. It was almost like I was like sad about, like, where I was just like, oh, like, because I knew that one person had very openly shared it and then was ready to freaking be there for me, you know. Um, brought me lunch and dinner, and then was like, I'm coming back next week too.
SPEAKER_03:In that when you're talking to that gal, or maybe other gals, but that gal specifically, and you asked her, yeah, did did you have these thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And she, I'm assuming, yeah, yeah. I had those. Yeah. What was that for you?
SPEAKER_00:That was relief. It was just that was relief. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's so heavy, man.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like, you know, I was like, I did. I was like, I'm not gonna say them on here, like just because I don't know if it's helpful or need to. And it's like, you know, I did share them with a couple people, but it's like, so I I don't think, yeah, I think it was important to share, but I like, but it's just like, oh, like it makes me sad now that I'm healthy, that that was my thought. And I couldn't have controlled it, but it's like that just is sad and heavy, and you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's kind of one of those things, it's like, how can I think that? But like you've said multiple times, you were so deficient in so many areas because you're you can't eat but you're but you're having you you want to breastfeed, but it's also taking away from you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know what I'm saying? Like it's depleting you.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:And you're tired, like you're just not in the right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I I would imagine that would be so so comforting to some degree. They're like, okay, yeah. I'm not alone. I'm not completely insane.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Other people have thought these things or similar.
SPEAKER_03:And you knew it because of what you do. Like you ask, but you're yeah. It's it's it's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:And you know, as a nurse though, I don't usually there's been a couple cases, but I don't usually hear those, the actual thoughts. Like I'm not the midwife gets or the you know, like I'm not in the room. But yeah, I know they're a thing. Oh, for sure. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Anyways, okay.
SPEAKER_00:But to hear someone else say their specific thought was kind of new of, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It made you feel seen. Totally.
SPEAKER_00:And just like, okay, because I know you're a great mom.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_00:And you still thought those things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm not a bad mom for any of these things. Yeah. I can't, or you know, it's yeah. Because you worry about that. Like, am I why didn't I think my kids?
SPEAKER_03:You have to have that confirmation.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So moving forward a little bit. How is the progression and working through your plans?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Lisa was right about, you know, I'm eating, I'm sleeping. Um, there was like the physical pain of going cold turkey. Yeah. So actually I didn't sleep for like a couple more nights. Like wake up in the sheets and everything's soaked with blood.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but then eventually, like, I'm sleeping again for six hours. That's a big deal to go from like I hadn't hit more than like three hours.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's huge. You know, like yeah, that's did you did you sense that as like an accomplishment? Like, okay. Was there I'm gonna back up just a tiny bit. Was there things like that? Were there other things where there was an awareness of okay, I'm my head's starting to come out of the water. I'm starting to make these, like, was there any one thing, or was it was there an awareness like, okay, and when did that happen? You you know what I'm saying? Like there's these little bits.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But was there an aw, I don't want to be over dramatic. I don't want to I want to say awakening, but that seems so but you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it was it was interesting. So I went on a all that happened on Saturday or something, and I think like now I can't, was it? It wouldn't have been a Sunday, huh? Um I at some point, maybe it was the next weekend or something, I'm like on a walk, and um yeah, maybe it was later. I like I had just like verbalized to two friends, like every like, you know, like just shared all of it. And I was like, and I'm a verbal processor. Yep. And I'm like, I feel amazing. Like, I think I'm cured. I'm like, I know that's not possible. Like that's not how postpartum depression or any depression works. Like it's like, but I feel so much better, like just so much weight lifted off of me. Like, we have a name, we have a plan, like I'm being taken care of. Um, I've got a way out of this, I'm not feeling trapped. Like, I have community. Because I think that was the other thing that Joy had said was, How many people have you let in on this? And I said, Nobody else. And okay.
SPEAKER_03:I want to, I wanna want you to keep going, but I want to come back to that. Okay. So go ahead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I felt like, oh, I'm not carrying this alone. Like there did feel like so much freedom in letting people in on it. A closer friend, you know, I was openly saying it, but like really like with like really being intimate, intimate conversations, sure. Like going for a walk with friends, ladies and telling them and stuff. Um so that did feel like, oh, like it it did feel like uh kind of a turning point. Like, um, but then the next day, you know, I'm sobbing for no reason, like just crying and crying. And I was like, okay, this isn't, I'm not cured. Like um, but yeah, there was that. And um, another beautiful example of community was there's a small group of people like older than us, like grandparents. Um, and they had like, we've hung out with our small group. They said, like, if you ever need prayer for anything, and so I was like, Can you guys pray for this specifically? Like my postpartum depression and stuff. And somebody said that they got an image of like that. I had just been covered like in darkness, and that like that was being lifted off in like a new white. Some like Skylar was relaying the message that someone else gave. And I was like, Yes, like I think in that day of just acknowledging everything it was, like the darkness was lifted off. And there's still these cloudy days, and more cloudy than not, but like then less and less, you know, type of thing. But there was something that broke free that those that first week or whatever, where it was like, okay, yeah, we have a name, we've named it, we have like just all those things they said. Like it was there was a freedom in that. And then I'm still trudging through, you know, but um, but a big shift. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So lots of support. Yeah. You mentioned a lot of people just spending time with you all day.
SPEAKER_00:Literally coming over for eight hours. So how long did that need to take or need to happen? Probably a couple weeks. And I'm not like oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:No, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:It was all a blur, and I'm bad at the timelines anyways, as you've heard from my dating. And like probably two weeks of like we're in here. Yeah. Yeah, like people come over, Skyler would come home a little early, work from home, like just to have someone else around. Sure. Um his mom was coming over, bringing, yeah, so I I hadn't cooked for week, you know, like um, she was bringing meals, and James has different meals than us because his allergies, and so she's double doing, you know, like um so that went on.
unknown:Gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, Sunday schedulers gone most of the day, so I had lined up friends, like co-workers from two jobs ago. They were coming over for six hours, bringing lunch and dinner, snacks for me, um, toys for James, chalk, and playing with him, you know, like feeding the baby. That was yeah, a couple weeks. Couple weeks.
SPEAKER_03:And you're it's a move forward because we're kind of getting down to it. Yeah. Um so you feel like you're on the other side of it, still kind of dealing with l in in certain aspects or like current, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like current. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I feel like and the how are the boys and oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I there's such a big shift. It's um, I mean, one, we switched the baby to formula. He didn't cry for three months. Like he became the happiest baby, and he started talking a ton. And I think I I was like, I wasn't making eye contact with him or talking to him. He kept talking with one of my friends.
SPEAKER_03:Bonding stuff. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:So we are bonding for the first time.
SPEAKER_03:Like insane how that like the what we do. I mean, you know, you just take it back to how God created us. Yeah. It's when you get down to it, we just do things because we do things and it's natural and we connect, but it's until you're really kind of in it, and then you see the ripples. Yeah, yeah, what you've gone through, like as simple as like not having eye contact or contact with them at all because you just can't.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you're seeing him develop with other people, but now that's like, isn't that incredible?
SPEAKER_00:Like, yeah, it's sad that it was missed and but it was missed. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you grieve that time, but it's really it kind of reminds you of how much they like everything is so intentional. Yes, yes, like how we hold them, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And the brain connection, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, the left and the right, and the breast milk that's made just for them, and the eye connection.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like their eyesight is enough to see from like the rest to your eyes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's wild. It is, and I don't think we think about that kind of stuff enough. Yeah. So I don't know, just a thought.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that's really cool that he you're you're having those experiences with him.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, I know they um I think like my midwife in general, because I was like, when do I change my dose back? Or you know, those kinds of things. And therapists and midwife were like, like after a year, then you can kind of start to like really let things settle down and just to not shake things up again. And I'm like, I'm totally fine. Like the hormone shifts, the stopping breastfeeding causes a ton of hormone shifts too. Um and so just like letting things settle down and really like, you know, there was like I was drowning, then my head's above water, you know, like water's getting in my mouth, you know, like I'm okay, people aren't with me all the time, but I still really need people to bring me a meal every now and then, you know, like kind of like I can only cook once a week. Like where it's just it feels unbearable. Um and so I'm trying to think at what point where it really feels like because so I that all happened at like it was like eight weeks almost exactly, I think, that I stopped breastfeeding him. Like my like eight weeks and two days or something. Um and then I think by month three, I think I think after a month of like rehab, basically, you know, like all these things being taken care of. Yeah, we were like, okay, like our heads above water. Like we went camping this summer.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, like there was just things where it's like, oh, like I cooked three meals this week, like, which is my normal. We like eat leftovers, you know. It was like, okay, like we've made it through the darkest and the hardest part. Like um, and I think there's I think there's lingering things of like, I need to finish grieving the loss of because for a while I was like, I don't have time, I can't open this box, you know? And I've just started to crack that. Like, there's a lot to process to process with Skylar. What was this like for you? Like, we have the availability and capacity now to do that. And so I've started to like, oh, these things about breastfeeding, watching my friends breastfeed, and that's hard, and to process those things. But I feel like yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um you know, when you talked at church, I again we don't know you a ton. Um there's obviously an awareness. I guess I knew that you had babies, but I I'm not sure that I realized that it was so fresh. Like you're still processing stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. I'm not on the other side of it totally. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm I'm not in the thick of it. Um and I yeah, it's like, uh, so what it's been four months since we said since that day. It's been four months, you know. Um I'm going cold turkey and this is the plan. In my meltdown.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to save what I was going to say for a second. So you're still kind of dealing with it. And I told you the other day what I, you know, you were like, what do we how do we do this? Yeah. And um with anybody I talk to, um, I always ask them, you know, even kind of still in it a little bit. What would you say? What would be the learning? Can you even do that right now?
SPEAKER_01:I know, I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:If you can't, that's fine. Um maybe that it's not time for that question yet. Um, but I just kind of want to kind of put a a bow on this, you know, kind of button it up. Um so I guess I'll give I'll let you kind of finish how you want to how you want to finish.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. No, I yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Where you may not be ready or whatever. So I I want to kind of leave it up to you.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Um Yeah, the the like I thought about like, okay, like what would you tell somebody? Like you know, it again, it's like you don't know until you know, until, you know, which is unfortunate, maybe. Like, I think Yeah, I I don't totally know yet. But what came to mind, you know, I'm like in a couple months and in a year I'll have another answer, whatever. But what did come to mind was like was just like asking and receiving help. That feels really hard for a lot of people, I think. Someone was saying, like, you're so good at asking for help, and I'm like, it's been so humbling. It's it's been humiliating almost, you know, where like it could like it's like I don't want to ask them to bring me another meal. I don't want them to ask them to stay for eight hours and have their husband pick up their kids because they're with mine. I don't want them to, but I'm going to. Like, so someone said, like, you've just been so good at that.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm like, Cause I have like for a while you weren't until you had to.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And that's the thing. And I think, you know, if you became too prideful or thinking about that too much, you would say, like, no, I'm just gonna keep doing this thing. And it's like, yeah, I really there were points where I was like, I cannot do this. But I I think some people may, you know, I would worry that some people may not still ask for the help or something, you know. Like, I don't know how to help people understand. Like, because again, you're so in the thick of it. I think being around people and having community, like if I had been around people more, maybe they would have seen something was wrong, you know. And friends who did come over to help, like, said, like, you were not yourself. And I don't remember hanging out with people. And I've asked them recently, like, I'm ready to hear what I was like. Because I for what I was like, don't tell me what I was like two months ago. I don't want to hear it.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting. I could go into a whole other line of questioning on that, but I won't. Um I think for me, it's um any community, church is amazing. Not everybody's a Christian, not everybody's religious. Yeah, whatever however you want to phrase that. Um I think, and I don't want to push that on somebody that, you know, but I think for us and having that community, it's a really big deal. It in it was our lifeline. You can have a community, but there's also this community is kind of built on it's hard for me to find the right words. It's built on our faith. Yeah, and it's built on our creator. And um the crux of our belief is what our church, our founding pastor Dave has taught forever is loving God and loving people. And I think that really is such an amazing kind of mission statement because it the crux of our that's the crux of our faith is that and that, and it's the people part that really like they you had people that sacrificed for you, and that's what we should all do, yeah, probably, um, whether you go to church or not, you know, and a lot of people do, yeah. Like they'll drop anything. Yeah, um, but it is a a pretty awesome community. I mean, you have some people that really love you and oh, just carried carried us.
SPEAKER_00:They were the lifeline in the like they were the boat that like they were the the thing that got us out from drowning.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know, and yeah, and I and I don't I know what's going on in my head. There's people outside of church that will do the same thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, some of yes, some of my co-workers, yeah, the co-workers came, not it's just being a human being. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's sacrificing, yeah. Like you said, that like hit me a little bit when you said it is the husbands are picking up the kids, so you can the moms can take care of mine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That's like a simple statement, but so heavy. Like that's like really real. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yes. So what I was gonna say is again to kind of well, I want to make sure you have any more, if you have any more words that you want to share or say, and then I'm gonna kind of end it where I feel like I want to end it.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think no, nothing's coming to mind.
SPEAKER_03:I uh Well, I will just say this. Um it's an awesome community that we have. Yeah. And uh just stay in community. Yeah wherever you're at, outside, inside of church, yes, be connected to people. Yeah. And I wanna I get a little emotional. I really, really um am really grateful that you took the time to to talk to me today because I'm not sure I realized how like you're still kind of in it. You're like, I wouldn't even say at the tail end of you're like in the middle of the tail, like you're yeah, yeah. Like so I really am very humbled and very grateful that you were open enough to talk to somebody that you really don't know. And I feel very privileged and honored that you were you you shared this much with me. Yeah, I'm really grateful. So I thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for having me and asking me. And, you know, when I shared at church that Sunday, um, you know, I sat up there I had postpartum depression, everyone's coming to me. That was so brave and courageous of you. That was so brave. And I was like, was it? You know, like I um, but I I feel like uh and so anyways, yeah, sorry. I was I was thinking like, you know, like I hope I might never hear that person who who needed to know about it or whatever, right? You might not see the fruit of it like that. I was like, hopefully it impacted somebody.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But in, you know, you so you asking this and recording this and just even, you know, I was like, yeah, like I do feel like that's something God has just gifted me with being like that's easier for me to be vulnerable with people and share these things. And like I, the same way that other woman like checked in with me and asked those things as a friend, not a nurse. She wasn't a medical professional, you know. Like, um, it's like, no, I gratefully accept, like, even in the mess to share what I've gone through in case that helps somebody.
SPEAKER_03:Like, it just Yeah, and that's obviously my hope of something like this. It's I well, it's gonna be sound kind of corny. I just want to know.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, that's not so unintentional based on the title of this, but that's that's why I do this is I'm very curious. And this is how I do it. Yeah, big groups of people aren't my thing, yeah. But connecting in this way across from somebody like this is where I find connection. And the interesting thing is, is this such a heavy topic? And I was telling people, you know, there's a lot of people that know at church that I do this. I was like, I'm so excited. And like on the third person, I'm like, should I be vocalizing that I'm excited to talk to Audrey about postpartum depression? Like it's like this isn't like something to for me to get off on, but it's it's the um it's the conversation that I get excited for, it's the vulnerability that you're willing to share. And I'm just curious, and just being able to talk to somebody in this way, I guess, because then I'm like, no, I don't I don't think that's bad. I just I get excited about the talking to somebody part, yes, and somebody willing to share about something that's not openly talked about.
SPEAKER_00:I was like found out.
SPEAKER_03:And again, to repeat, like the for the third time, you're communicating with somebody that you you know, you're you know my girls.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I know your girls, I'm around, yeah, but we don't know each other.
SPEAKER_03:So I think that's kind of really the the part that I was excited about. Yeah, like she's willing to do this thing that I'd love to do. And I'm hoping really ultimately that another woman or a lot many women hear this and or share it with somebody. Yeah, because there's a lot of helpful information in here, just the experience. Yeah, which is this one. There's not help. Yeah, it's the communicating it is the help, it's the whole thing is the help that I you know I'm saying. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so yeah. Anyways, we could go on. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Tony.
SPEAKER_03:I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so grateful. Yes, and I was excited also. And I this was I enjoyed this, and this was a good time talking about hard things, but in a safe space and uh just letting my story be heard. Yes, I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_03:All right, I'm so glad. It's music to my ears. Okay, thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Cause I Wanna Know. Please follow the podcast on Instagram and Facebook at Cause I Wanna Know. Also, please rate it five stars on the Apple Podcast app. It really helps out. Thanks again and keep wanting to know.
